Why did rome fell to savages like islam,slavs,germans?

作者： Valetorious, 28.07.2016 at 23:20

We should hab atleast 1 thread were we talk about ancient empires and not islam

that'd be cool

hey check out this macedonian phalangite vs a regular greek hoplite



pretty cool guys

Wanted to open topic for cold weapons like this. To see people commenting on their combo weps.

I like how Greeks had small sword and large shield so they can hide sword behind it and then attack swiftly, enemy couldn't see the attack then - and hoplite can still be protected with such a large shield from enemy attack.

Not to mention that shield was as effective as Roman squared shield, yet lighter so Greeks were faster while moving. Roman legions were heavy infantry and could not manouver.

作者： Skanderbeg, 29.07.2016 at 16:53

作者： Valetorious, 28.07.2016 at 23:20

We should hab atleast 1 thread were we talk about ancient empires and not islam

that'd be cool

hey check out this macedonian phalangite vs a regular greek hoplite



pretty cool guys

Wanted to open topic for cold weapons like this. To see people commenting on their combo weps.

I like how Greeks had small sword and large shield so they can hide sword behind it and then attack swiftly, enemy couldn't see the attack then - and hoplite can still be protected with such a large shield from enemy attack.

Not to mention that shield was as effective as Roman squared shield, yet lighter so Greeks were faster while moving. Roman legions were heavy infantry and could not manouver.

Yeah i've always been interested in ancient greece and their weaponry.

Greeks had honestly one of the most unique tactics when it came to fighting. Macedon was always one of the most fascinating to me since they really expanded the use of the phalanx and heavy cavalry. Spartans were pretty cool too because of how they are brought up (the healthy ones). Each boy had to train in a military barracks and then eventually do an ordeal to prove himself worthy of being a man and a soldier. Interesting stuff.

作者： Pheonixking929, 29.07.2016 at 07:09

作者： Khal.eesi, 29.07.2016 at 05:40

Here i would add, the theory that almost every agressive and militant tribe/civilization that ever existed- evident throughout all of our history, turned to being "softer" more peacefull and less militant over time, only to be conquered by the next more agressive and military disciplined neighboor, only to soften themselves and be conquered by the next and so on and so on. This happens because once a group of people conquer enough land and settle, the resulting economic benefits and standards of living allow them to live better lifes without fighting. They prefer to eat and drink, get educated and create art and do politics than fight and die. This has been happening since way before Romans, from Assyrians, Babylonians and tribes of the Middle East to Indus Valley tribes, to Europeans, to Muslims and Seljuks to bascily almost everyone and goes on even today for eg in the US where black gangsters started enjoying rich lifes and there came tougher, more brutal Salvadorian and Mexican gangsters and pushed them away, or Albanians with Coza nostra in Italy or right now (how laughable) when even animals like Albanians slowly start to appreciate peacefull family life, careers and education over jail and death and the more backwarded and brutal muslim jihadists are entering europe and have them scared shitless.

Same thing, did happen to Rome. Romans were tired of fighting, legionnaires were looking forward to become veterans and be given land to settle and raise a family. Romans in big cities enjoyed such fruitfull and luxurius lifes as politicians, traders, shopkeepers, artists, architechts, skilled workers that incentives for more war and conquest were non existant.

--- ---- ---- ---

"The idea of Rome will never die. We live in a world defined by the Romans. The basis of our legal code, our architecture, our entertainment values, political spirit and ambitions are all defined by the ideals of Rome. We are Rome"

I'm not sure if Rome's cessation of expansion was necessarily it's chief cause of downfall. By the time Rome stopped expanding, the most plentiful areas of natural resources were under its control, specifically the territories around the Mediterranean. Even with little to no expansion, Rome still required two Emperors to rule- imagine how hard it would be to rule an even larger empire. Furthermore, corruption was immense sucking up an egregious amount of income. This caused a cyclical problem wherein Rome invited in barbarians (lacking in many cases the military means or simple will to fight) and gave them land. By giving them land, they hoped to use them as soldiers in an increasingly diverse army filled mainly of barbarians. ROme lacked money to hire a fully professional army and to pay off barbarians so instead they gave them land- the only means of gaining income. So as they gave away more land, they had less money forcing them to give away even greater shares of it. Eventually, many of these barbs learned roman tactics, gained roman weaponry, over a course of centuries (think of Arminius and the attempted expansion into the Rhine wherein Rome completely lost ending forced assimilation of German tribes and a form of imperialism wherein these tribes and Rome created an uneasy pact, with barbs learning from Roman commanders and understanding roman military doctrine). No matter how aggressive Rome was, it did not have the generals necessary to lead effective field armies and its Emperors were increasingly paranoid (ie. death of Aetius).

Rome didn't need 2 emperors to rule. The Roman Empire collapsed and split into 2: East and West Empires under Greek and Roman influence respectively. It collapsed due to terrible emperors like Caligula who was crazier than njab
He made a horse a senator, proclaimed himself a God and had temples built to him, the head of every statue of every God in Rome was removed and replaced with his bust, he fed his horse oats mixed with gold flakes, married his sister and a hell of a lot more. Ended up being assassinated but did a lot of damage. He ignored the barbarians that were raiding the fringes of the Empire, declaring that he was a God and they could never successfully invade the domain of a God. He also said he has the right to do anything he wants.

Even romans where once barbarians, Romulus and Remus are known to be the father's of Roman culture and they where said to be raised by wolves, yes Germans slavs and other groups where barbarians, islam did not climb out of arabia till the seventh century, the sassanid empire was zoarstrian in faith. But what happened is these new groups of people saw what rome was and the quality of life romans had and wanted it, like khal said, but they also wanted there own identity and Europe became carved up by these various groups seeking civilized life outside of Roman rule, so you got people like lombarda, vandals, saxons, and goths carving up the west, while the east had a natural barrier in the Danube and those who did cross became assimilated into byzantine rule, including the ancestors of serbs croats Bulgarians and hungarians. Other races came latter and influenced and changed the groups of the balkans with the rise of islam such as bosnian and albanians.

Basically to summarize, Rome got lazy new groups liked roman life, but not roman rule so they made there own mini romes, which rarely saw success and rise and fall for hundreds of years, around the 13th century europe began to stabilize again.

作者： Tundy, 28.07.2016 at 20:47

-gramatically and (ideo)logically misled blabla-

作者： Evic, 28.07.2016 at 22:04

What did islam had to do with fall of romans? Ask ottomans and seljuks and their conquest of byzantine

I thought that the last roman emperor died before Mohammed was born. Am I wrong?

作者： Columna Durruti, 30.07.2016 at 19:41

作者： Tundy, 28.07.2016 at 20:47

-gramatically and (ideo)logically misled blabla-

作者： Evic, 28.07.2016 at 22:04

What did islam had to do with fall of romans? Ask ottomans and seljuks and their conquest of byzantine

I thought that the last roman emperor died before Mohammed was born. Am I wrong?

Well, most people (myself included) consider the byzantine empire a continuation of the roman empire.

Check khal's post he gives a brief paragraph about it.

作者： Columna Durruti, 30.07.2016 at 19:41

作者： Tundy, 28.07.2016 at 20:47

-gramatically and (ideo)logically misled blabla-

作者： Evic, 28.07.2016 at 22:04

What did islam had to do with fall of romans? Ask ottomans and seljuks and their conquest of byzantine

I thought that the last roman emperor died before Mohammed was born. Am I wrong?

The last Holy Roman Emperor(The Austrians) died in 1835.
The last Byzantine Emperor(Eastern Roman Empire) died in 1453, the same year as the conquest of Eastern Rome by the Ottomans.
The last Western Roman Emperor died in 476, deposed by the Germanic Odoacer.
As for the last Emperor of the united empire, he died 395.

Muhammad was born around 570.

The united Arab empire Muhammad created, the Rashidun Caliphate was the principal threat to Byzantine power. Under the Rashidun, in a mere 18 years all of Sassanid Persia was conquered by the Rashidun. They would shortly after also conquer the Levant from the Byzantines, then with the ascension of the Umayyad dynasty instead attack North Africa, Sicily and Spain. When the Abbasids came to power they would keep on fighting against the Byzantine Empire with little effect, until the Turks(Sultanate of Rum) settled in central Anatolia, destroying the main source of Byzantine power(This happened around 1100 AD).

In 1453 the Ottoman Turks would seize Constantinople, ending the last of the truly Roman Emperors.

Like all things, Romans had their good and bad sides, there is evidence that middle eastern and island states offered themselves to be ruled under the Romans because it was seen to be advantageous for all, through trade and the infrastructure that they bought with them.. Aqueducts, roads, law and order to name a few.

I'm not taking away from the fact Rome employed the use of slavery etc but you have to take the good with the bad, the same can be said of any empire or super power, whether its the Byzantines, an Islamic caliphate like the one that ruled Spain or Napoleon, all have their lovers and haters that tend to focus on elements of their rule in accordance with the dialogue of where you grew up and the overriding history of you own nation.

But the fact is any empire that ever existed had to have something good about it in order to last...

Before you guys start feeling so bad about roman empire being separated and later on exterminated, think of all people and all nations that roman empire enslaved,exterminated,tortured abused ect. Cuz in case you ignorants thought all nations suddenly gathered and devided to unite under an roman empire, then i got news for u dumbassed....THEY DIDN'T

作者： AlBoZzZ, 31.07.2016 at 13:02

Before you guys start feeling so bad about roman empire being separated and later on exterminated, think of all people and all nations that roman empire enslaved,exterminated,tortured abused ect. Cuz in case you ignorants thought all nations suddenly gathered and devided to unite under an roman empire, then i got news for u dumbassed....THEY DIDN'T

Not everybody is an illiterate like you. This topic was just simple bait, not some holy-than-thou contest. if you want to cry about how the world isn't fair then you should probably do so with your psychiatrist.

作者： Columna Durruti, 30.07.2016 at 19:41

I thought that the last roman emperor died before Mohammed was born. Am I wrong?

It depends in what you consider a legitimate roman emperor.

作者： Tundy, 31.07.2016 at 14:17

作者： AlBoZzZ, 31.07.2016 at 13:02

Before you guys start feeling so bad about roman empire being separated and later on exterminated, think of all people and all nations that roman empire enslaved,exterminated,tortured abused ect. Cuz in case you ignorants thought all nations suddenly gathered and devided to unite under an roman empire, then i got news for u dumbassed....THEY DIDN'T

Not everybody is an illiterate like you. This topic was just simple bait, not some holy-than-thou contest. if you want to cry about how the world isn't fair then you should probably do so with your psychiatrist.

Once you saw the thread backfired at you and showed your ignorance you started saying its a bate thread. You have mental problems for real so i rlly recommend you seeing a specialist even though its gonna be hard finding specialist in mexico since most of yiu guys are gardeners. Try to come illegally in usa like your cousins, we got some nice specialists here if you manage to pass the border

作者： AlBoZzZ, 31.07.2016 at 14:23

作者： Tundy, 31.07.2016 at 14:17

作者： AlBoZzZ, 31.07.2016 at 13:02

Before you guys start feeling so bad about roman empire being separated and later on exterminated, think of all people and all nations that roman empire enslaved,exterminated,tortured abused ect. Cuz in case you ignorants thought all nations suddenly gathered and devided to unite under an roman empire, then i got news for u dumbassed....THEY DIDN'T

Not everybody is an illiterate like you. This topic was just simple bait, not some holy-than-thou contest. if you want to cry about how the world isn't fair then you should probably do so with your psychiatrist.

Once you saw the thread backfired at you and showed your ignorance you started saying its a bate thread. You have mental problems for real so i rlly recommend you seeing a specialist even though its gonna be hard finding specialist in mexico since most of yiu guys are gardeners. Try to come illegally in usa like your cousins, we got some nice specialists here if you manage to pass the border

I posted a bloody meme, in a topic which had a click-bait name that insulted every single westerner and middle eastern in atwar. It was an obvious bait, is not my fault that you choose to throw a huge tantrum like a child. Obviously you have anger issues, go with a psychiatrist maybe you have autism.

作者： AlBoZzZ, 31.07.2016 at 13:02

Before you guys start feeling so bad about roman empire being separated and later on exterminated, think of all people and all nations that roman empire enslaved,exterminated,tortured abused ect. Cuz in case you ignorants thought all nations suddenly gathered and devided to unite under an roman empire, then i got news for u dumbassed....THEY DIDN'T

There's historical evidence omg

I'm not saying they were perfect and tunder calling Muslims barbarians is unacceptable.

They're just like any other empire, just lasted longer and more inventive

Ps: I never felt "bad", just pointing out that good things come with bad and vice versa

作者： Tundy, 31.07.2016 at 14:29

作者： AlBoZzZ, 31.07.2016 at 14:23

作者： Tundy, 31.07.2016 at 14:17

作者： AlBoZzZ, 31.07.2016 at 13:02

Before you guys start feeling so bad about roman empire being separated and later on exterminated, think of all people and all nations that roman empire enslaved,exterminated,tortured abused ect. Cuz in case you ignorants thought all nations suddenly gathered and devided to unite under an roman empire, then i got news for u dumbassed....THEY DIDN'T

Not everybody is an illiterate like you. This topic was just simple bait, not some holy-than-thou contest. if you want to cry about how the world isn't fair then you should probably do so with your psychiatrist.

Once you saw the thread backfired at you and showed your ignorance you started saying its a bate thread. You have mental problems for real so i rlly recommend you seeing a specialist even though its gonna be hard finding specialist in mexico since most of yiu guys are gardeners. Try to come illegally in usa like your cousins, we got some nice specialists here if you manage to pass the border

I posted a bloody meme, in a topic which had a click-bait name that insulted every single westerner and middle eastern in atwar. It was an obvious bait, is not my fault that you choose to throw a huge tantrum like a child. Obviously you have anger issues, go with a psychiatrist maybe you have autism.

You're the autist here

作者： Phoenix, 31.07.2016 at 15:15

You're the autist here

I love you too.

作者： 5th SS Wiking, 31.07.2016 at 11:45

-snip! historical facts-

Thanks!

作者： Tundy, 31.07.2016 at 14:21

作者： Columna Durruti, 30.07.2016 at 19:41

I thought that the last roman emperor died before Mohammed was born. Am I wrong?

It depends in what you consider a legitimate roman emperor.

Ok. Thanks.

作者： Columna Durruti, 31.07.2016 at 19:46

作者： Tundy, 31.07.2016 at 14:21

作者： Columna Durruti, 30.07.2016 at 19:41

I thought that the last roman emperor died before Mohammed was born. Am I wrong?

It depends in what you consider a legitimate roman emperor.

Ok. Thanks.

Lol, Collumna, your inquisitions are fantastic!

作者： Phoenix, 01.08.2016 at 05:08

作者： Columna Durruti, 31.07.2016 at 19:46

作者： Tundy, 31.07.2016 at 14:21

作者： Columna Durruti, 30.07.2016 at 19:41

I thought that the last roman emperor died before Mohammed was born. Am I wrong?

It depends in what you consider a legitimate roman emperor.

Ok. Thanks.

Lol, Collumna, your inquisitions are fantastic!

NO ONE EXPECTS THE COLLUMNAN INQUISITION!

In 2300 they will ask why the United States of America fell to all these savages the muslim terror, hispanic influex, international invasion and dirty russians.
They'll speculate - oh how it was the economy, the political system, an inactive government, etc etc.

but I'll save em the time and tell you now: liberals. it was the damn liberals with their cry cry save the poor get rid of police rhetoric. They divide the nation, take its foundation through populist movements. The brainwashed majority, in their euphoria, no longer realize the real danger of war and natural competition of humans on earth. Patriarchy turns to feminism, nation turns to filth.

Same thing happened to Rome. The populares AKA roman liberals divded the nation, brainwashed their followers. They thought they were too big to handle, they forget the barbarians who wanted deeply what they had and thus it fell. what we saw in rome is what we shall see in america.

作者： x___, 01.08.2016 at 07:42

In 2300 they will ask why the United States of America fell to all these savages the muslim terror, hispanic influex, international invasion and dirty russians.
They'll speculate - oh how it was the economy, the political system, an inactive government, etc etc.

but I'll save em the time and tell you now: liberals. it was the damn liberals with their cry cry save the poor get rid of police rhetoric. They divide the nation, take its foundation through populist movements. The brainwashed majority, in their euphoria, no longer realize the real danger of war and natural competition of humans on earth. Patriarchy turns to feminism, nation turns to filth.

Same thing happened to Rome. The populares AKA roman liberals divded the nation, brainwashed their followers. They thought they were too big to handle, they forget the barbarians who wanted deeply what they had and thus it fell. what we saw in rome is what we shall see in america.

Unfortunately the world isn't quite that simple kid

作者： Phoenix, 01.08.2016 at 11:35

作者： x___, 01.08.2016 at 07:42

In 2300 they will ask why the United States of America fell to all these savages the muslim terror, hispanic influex, international invasion and dirty russians.
They'll speculate - oh how it was the economy, the political system, an inactive government, etc etc.

but I'll save em the time and tell you now: liberals. it was the damn liberals with their cry cry save the poor get rid of police rhetoric. They divide the nation, take its foundation through populist movements. The brainwashed majority, in their euphoria, no longer realize the real danger of war and natural competition of humans on earth. Patriarchy turns to feminism, nation turns to filth.

Same thing happened to Rome. The populares AKA roman liberals divded the nation, brainwashed their followers. They thought they were too big to handle, they forget the barbarians who wanted deeply what they had and thus it fell. what we saw in rome is what we shall see in america.

Unfortunately the world isn't quite that simple kid

Oh, hiding understanding in the artsy veil of 'world is too complicated' now are we? You must admit that a lack of unity is why Rome fell - to some extent that must be true. The question we must ask ourselves is to what extent it is and how that can influence other factors. To deny it is to just simply being delusional.
Also, I dont know anything about your background, what part of UK you're in, etc, but when you experience this phenomenon firsthand, trust me you understand suddenly why such strong governments can so easily fall, ... kid.

Without really knowing it, liberals did it back then and they are doing it now. Conservative authoriatarian values arent always the best, but they can keep a nation strong, focused, and united (relative to govt under liberal control).

作者： x___, 01.08.2016 at 07:42

Loads of horse morning work

America wouldn't be 1# economy, 1# importer, until recently 1# exporter and 1# destination for immigrants if they didn't had Liberalism. That ideology you cry about.

No Tesla, Einstein, Rockefeller or Ford would migrate to America if it was oppressive. The very first Pilgrims migrated to America to escape European persecution, to find new land and create liberty. No Boeing, McDouglas, Cadillac, Coca Cola, All-Star, Hollywood, Wall Street would exist if there was no Liberalism.

Today, America have Big Brother state, it happens, but before 1960 it was pure Liberalist. Today big brother create problems, wars and crisis you cry about, not Liberalism. Liberalism created 1# economy for them. Just like Liberalism is creating No.2 economy for China after Big Brother held it for 30 years as country 100#

Just like now Ukraine has big brother government and is falling into abyss. 2 million Ukrainians already migrated to Russia. Before that it had Liberalism and made significant progress. Because people are decently smart to create their own lifes if given proper freedom.

作者： x___, 01.08.2016 at 07:42

In 2300 they will ask why the United States of America fell to all these savages the muslim terror, hispanic influex, international invasion and dirty russians.
They'll speculate - oh how it was the economy, the political system, an inactive government, etc etc.

but I'll save em the time and tell you now: liberals. it was the damn liberals with their cry cry save the poor get rid of police rhetoric. They divide the nation, take its foundation through populist movements. The brainwashed majority, in their euphoria, no longer realize the real danger of war and natural competition of humans on earth. Patriarchy turns to feminism, nation turns to filth.

Same thing happened to Rome. The populares AKA roman liberals divded the nation, brainwashed their followers. They thought they were too big to handle, they forget the barbarians who wanted deeply what they had and thus it fell. what we saw in rome is what we shall see in america.

Storming Rome, killing Pompey, crowning yourself Emperor, conquering Gaul and asking to be worshipped as a god are very liberal things indeed. Honestly by saying the Populares were liberals you make yourself look like a retard. They were closer to Fascism if anything.

作者： Zephyrusu, 01.08.2016 at 16:37

Storming Rome, killing Pompey, crowning yourself Emperor, conquering Gaul and asking to be worshipped as a god are very liberal things indeed. Honestly by saying the Populares were liberals you make yourself look like a retard. They were closer to Fascism if anything.

HHAHAHAHAAAHA. ok let me calm down and make you realize what you just said.

Those things are nothing to do with being liberal. 'Liberal' is a method of thinking and control. What you mentioned are just actions, some ways of acting to achieve goals whether they be for communism, for capitalism, for liberty, for authority, idk you name it. However - the outcome, reactions, and consequences resulting from the actions are very different. Populares WERE COMPELTELY liberals, to deny it would make you look like a retard. They appealed to the masses through basically state welfare. They encouraged a more socialistic system that in the end got Rome f'd in the a**.

作者： x___, 01.08.2016 at 17:46

作者： Zephyrusu, 01.08.2016 at 16:37

Storming Rome, killing Pompey, crowning yourself Emperor, conquering Gaul and asking to be worshipped as a god are very liberal things indeed. Honestly by saying the Populares were liberals you make yourself look like a retard. They were closer to Fascism if anything.

HHAHAHAHAAAHA. ok let me calm down and make you realize what you just said.

Those things are nothing to do with being liberal. 'Liberal' is a method of thinking and control. What you mentioned are just actions, some ways of acting to achieve goals whether they be for communism, for capitalism, for liberty, for authority, idk you name it. However - the outcome, reactions, and consequences resulting from the actions are very different. Populares WERE COMPELTELY liberals, to deny it would make you look like a retard. They appealed to the masses through basically state welfare. They encouraged a more socialistic system that in the end got Rome f'd in the a**.

Liberalism means freedom for the people to act as they wish. Killing whoever doesn't worship you, couping the goverment, killing your political rivals and invading everything are not really actions that give the people the right to choose for themselves.

作者： Zephyrusu, 01.08.2016 at 18:05

作者： x___, 01.08.2016 at 17:46

作者： Zephyrusu, 01.08.2016 at 16:37

Storming Rome, killing Pompey, crowning yourself Emperor, conquering Gaul and asking to be worshipped as a god are very liberal things indeed. Honestly by saying the Populares were liberals you make yourself look like a retard. They were closer to Fascism if anything.

HHAHAHAHAAAHA. ok let me calm down and make you realize what you just said.

Those things are nothing to do with being liberal. 'Liberal' is a method of thinking and control. What you mentioned are just actions, some ways of acting to achieve goals whether they be for communism, for capitalism, for liberty, for authority, idk you name it. However - the outcome, reactions, and consequences resulting from the actions are very different. Populares WERE COMPELTELY liberals, to deny it would make you look like a retard. They appealed to the masses through basically state welfare. They encouraged a more socialistic system that in the end got Rome f'd in the a**.

Liberalism means freedom for the people to act as they wish. Killing whoever doesn't worship you, couping the goverment, killing your political rivals and invading everything are not really actions that give the people the right to choose for themselves.

uh bro, that's simply the definition of democracy ... Liberalism is not democracy. And if you believe mate that people really choose each for themselves ever, then, well, you might want to look around. People are influenced by their neighbors, parents, friends, etc. No one ever really chooses for themselves, at least not with the 99%. The opinion you have right now - is not yours. You took it from somewhere whether you know it or not. In terms of government, you are literally a sheep, a part of the 99% that they can influence.

Also, idk what liberalism is to you, but dude in america some of the biggest liberals get money from corporations and consistently advocate for war. Lets see... the democratic party in USA is liberal? Yes, they are. Who is biggest liberal? Hillary. What has Hillary done? Voted every. single. time. for military operations and invasion. To get into government usually means you have to do some dirty things and be "resourceful". liberals included.

Once again, I prove to you that those actions are simply a way to get power and control. And yes liberals use them.

They fell because of cultural degeneracy and mass immigration of savage peoples. This is happening to Europe today also.

作者： x___, 01.08.2016 at 18:15

作者： Zephyrusu, 01.08.2016 at 18:05

作者： x___, 01.08.2016 at 17:46

作者： Zephyrusu, 01.08.2016 at 16:37

Storming Rome, killing Pompey, crowning yourself Emperor, conquering Gaul and asking to be worshipped as a god are very liberal things indeed. Honestly by saying the Populares were liberals you make yourself look like a retard. They were closer to Fascism if anything.

HHAHAHAHAAAHA. ok let me calm down and make you realize what you just said.

Those things are nothing to do with being liberal. 'Liberal' is a method of thinking and control. What you mentioned are just actions, some ways of acting to achieve goals whether they be for communism, for capitalism, for liberty, for authority, idk you name it. However - the outcome, reactions, and consequences resulting from the actions are very different. Populares WERE COMPELTELY liberals, to deny it would make you look like a retard. They appealed to the masses through basically state welfare. They encouraged a more socialistic system that in the end got Rome f'd in the a**.

Liberalism means freedom for the people to act as they wish. Killing whoever doesn't worship you, couping the goverment, killing your political rivals and invading everything are not really actions that give the people the right to choose for themselves.

uh bro, that's simply the definition of democracy ... Liberalism is not democracy. And if you believe mate that people really choose each for themselves ever, then, well, you might want to look around. People are influenced by their neighbors, parents, friends, etc. No one ever really chooses for themselves, at least not with the 99%. The opinion you have right now - is not yours. You took it from somewhere whether you know it or not. In terms of government, you are literally a sheep, a part of the 99% that they can influence.

Also, idk what liberalism is to you, but dude in america some of the biggest liberals get money from corporations and consistently advocate for war. Lets see... the democratic party in USA is liberal? Yes, they are. Who is biggest liberal? Hillary. What has Hillary done? Voted every. single. time. for military operations and invasion. To get into government usually means you have to do some dirty things and be "resourceful". liberals included.

Once again, I prove to you that those actions are simply a way to get power and control. And yes liberals use them.

American politics are retarded. Liberalism has the same etymological root as Liberty, which literally means freedom. I do not care about if liberalism is hypocrisy or not, And my opinion, wether influenced or not, is still mine, and I love how you judge my political views just for telling you that a faction of ancient Romans that literally took down whatever little freedom of choice the plebians had is liberal.