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SM tanks are fine, why use a unit that isn't meant to be used for the strategy? With that logic we should buff sentry planes since they're so useless in all scenarios.
Lazy stats for tank indeed but you shouldnt be making tanks as SM anyway, it's an aerial based strategy and no reason to change ground units.
You just figured it out! Lets make it clear: producing Tanks as SM is a bad decision, so you cant PUNISH players for taking bad decisions, a bad decision is a bad decision, that's balance. As I said, it just induces players to error. I dont even call returning SM Tanks back to its normal price a buff, its just redundancy removal.
Also Helicopters have been talked about for SM but we figured let's keep them separate, or else we would need to buff bombers for DS as well and heli's for relentless attack also. We want variety and diversity. You shouldnt be able to utilize every unit unless you go None or IMP. That's the whole point of strategies.
Buffing Heli's for RA makes sense actually, you just have to figure out HOW to do it properly. But how buffing Bombers for DS relates to its Ethos? This is the exact problem I wrote about, you must increase UTILITY by reduction of COMPLEXITY, not the opposite.
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since defending is way easier
What
Attacking is honestly quite mindless, it's just spamming more tanks and smashing them into the enemy.
I can name quite a few attacking players that have reached 1.5k elo, but still play defensive strats (for eg imp turk) like they have 1.2k elo.
On the other hand, I can't name a single defensive player that has reached 1.5k elo but plays an attacking strat like they have 1.2k elo
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作者: Dave, 23.10.2020 at 04:38
Some time ago I had had a conversation with @Garde about the latter and (if I remember correctly) he was of a similar opinion regarding power creep... so I'm just saying I don't think we should be afraid of that right now.
You can divide AtWar Strategies in 5 tiers (according to the last metagame survey done in October 2019, prior to RA and Blitz buffs). The intentions of my proposal is to reduce the numbers of tiers to only 3, and at the same time reduce the gap between the tiers (which is huge in my opinion). There is that table I did that shows this.
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GW has been nerfed in the past and to nerf it again would make it unplayable in any early game situation. Yes OK for late game but you will completely remove it from a lot of game modes by nerfing it even more.
That's funny, other people thought I was buffing it and that's why they didn't liked. Well, the explanation is there.
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Your graphs are wrong and inaccurate imo. You make NC look like a powerful strat when it's just a "meh" strat. You're also underestimating LB and SM, unless you blindly use your money without thinking properly, yeah I guess you'll have a shitty economy because you don't pay attention to how you're spending your money. Lastly, your graph makes decent strats like GW and IF look weak .
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Your graphs are wrong and inaccurate imo. You make NC look like a powerful strat when it's just a "meh" strat.
Naval Commander is anything but a "meh" strat. As I wrote there:
"[...] the graphs below doesn't represent the quality of the Strategy as a whole, many of them are pretty situational, such as Naval Commander and all the ones air/stealth-oriented. Its nothing but a parameter for the exercise we're doing here."
Lastly, your graph makes decent strats like GW and IF look weak .
Not at all, mate. GW and IF had very small adjustments, its all the other strats that got to the same level as them.
Take GC and IF for example. Right now, GC is a very situational strategy, while IF is way more versatile. The updates I proposed would give GC the same versatility IF has, making it equal (or even better) in terms of power/effectiviness.
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作者: Estus, 24.10.2020 at 14:03
Take GC and IF for example. Right now, GC is a very situational strategy, while IF is way more versatile. The updates I proposed would give GC the same versatility IF has, making it equal (or even better) in terms of power/effectiviness.
GC is perfectly fine imo
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GC is perfectly fine imo
I would use the word "plastered".
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I think if we were to power creep on some of these strategies it would be easier to deal with a super strong defensive strategy rather than a super strong attacking strategy. Attack strategies have had their time for the last few years now...(Lucky Bastard, Desert Storm, Relentless Attack, Guerrilla Warfare).
Andddd... it gave weaker players a big advantage. The last 4 years everyone was hitting above 1500+ elo only because of strong attack, once LB was nerfed we saw that the overall elo pool for high ranks slowly dropped. So we now know how dangerous making attack strats too powerful can be.
Sorry, didn't saw this message earlier.
I'm not getting your point. Many of those changes doesn't power creep anything, I'm just cleaning a lot of incongruities present on the Strategies and genuinely balancing them as a whole in order to reduce the huge gap between the Strategy tiers.
I can't talk about LB because 4 years ago I wasn't really into atWar as I am now. But based on the wrong things I'm seeing right now, I can assure you with 100% sure that the changes I'm proposing are not like anything done before.
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Great initiative and the graphs are very nice, gj
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作者: Estus, 23.10.2020 at 09:29
SM tanks are fine, why use a unit that isn't meant to be used for the strategy? With that logic we should buff sentry planes since they're so useless in all scenarios.
Lazy stats for tank indeed but you shouldnt be making tanks as SM anyway, it's an aerial based strategy and no reason to change ground units.
You just figured it out! Lets make it clear: producing Tanks as SM is a bad decision, so you cant PUNISH players for taking bad decisions, a bad decision is a bad decision, that's balance. As I said, it just induces players to error.
I imagine you put a lot of effort into this but this is where I would disagree with you. You SHOULD be PUNISHED for making bad decisions. At least if it is a strategy game we are speaking about. It does not induce error, it challenges players to actually be thoughtful and carefully consider pros and cons in their selection of strats and the implementation of whatever plan the wish to execute. I think it is naive to expect to make bad strategic decision and not expect it to have a net impact on the performance.The game lays out the stats for all strats and it is up to players to carefully consider the information and make informed decisions.
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作者: DJ003, 26.10.2020 at 16:52
作者: Estus, 23.10.2020 at 09:29
SM tanks are fine, why use a unit that isn't meant to be used for the strategy? With that logic we should buff sentry planes since they're so useless in all scenarios.
Lazy stats for tank indeed but you shouldnt be making tanks as SM anyway, it's an aerial based strategy and no reason to change ground units.
You just figured it out! Lets make it clear: producing Tanks as SM is a bad decision, so you cant PUNISH players for taking bad decisions, a bad decision is a bad decision, that's balance. As I said, it just induces players to error.
I imagine you put a lot of effort into this but this is where I would disagree with you. You SHOULD be PUNISHED for making bad decisions. At least if it is a strategy game we are speaking about. It does not induce error, it challenges players to actually be thoughtful and carefully consider pros and cons in their selection of strats and the implementation of whatever plan the wish to execute. I think it is naive to expect to make bad strategic decision and not expect it to have a net impact on the performance.The game lays out the stats for all strats and it is up to players to carefully consider the information and make informed decisions.
I just read what Estus said I think that's a really good idea, like how in Minecraft you have slow effect potions? You know how you have negative potions? What if that was represented on atWar? We could make it so that tank production is SLOWER! You see? Great idea I just came up with it. So you'd have delay between the click timeframes. I come up with these ideas so well on the fly the back burner should be filled to the brim with my ideas at this point
Edit: nevermind I support what the other guy said, I thought Estus said that you SHOULD punish people
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Happiness = reality - expectations
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